Username Post: Conventions are shareing their banned list's with other events        (Topic#947)
Fedora 
Con Regular
Posts: 93
Fedora
Loc: Suffolk UK & NH USA
Reg: 12-22-06

12-11-08 09:58 AM - Post#3248    

I found out a tib bit of very interesting and scary info about certain conventions that share there “Banned attendee list” with other events.

The reason why I am posting this is that my friend got a very interesting email today form an event stating he was banned. He just registered got confirmed and paid for the event, not too long before receiving this email

This person to my knowledge has done nothing wrong. He holds a rather high security clearance with a government organization. I would not be writing this if I did not 100% trust the integrity of this person in question.

The names of the person involved and the convention have been removed for privacy reasons and replaced with XXX's.


“Dear Mr XXXXXX

Your name user name, badge name and email has come up on banned list shared between fellow Anime events.

Your conduct at past conventions has been questionable to say the least. It is the responsibility of XXXXX convention to ensure, we have a problem free event that is free of UN desirable people.

It is the decision of XXXXX to have you removed from pre registration list and banned from all future XXXXX events. For more information, please email XXXXX at anycon@email_removed.net

Sincerely

Name Removed
XXXXX convention chairman"



This raises many potential issues with people and me who go to anime conventions. If a convention was to share their banned list who is to say if the list is right or not for another event? For all we know there could have been a miss understanding at a past event that got a person wrongly put on a banned list.

Many events maintain a banned list for a reason however to share it with another event is unacceptable. Keep in mind this letter came from a first year convention in a UN disclosed country.

To share all that personal information with another event that in my view is wrong. Doing the above violates many laws regarding data protection and personal rights.
James Fedora
Cosplay Media and US/UK Medic

Staff Anime Boston 03,06,07,08,09
Chief of Security Connecticon 03
Co founder of Anime South
Offcial Videographer London Cosplay Ball 08
Jack of All Trades & Medic Kitacon UK 09

www.otakupunch.com
Facebook- Otaku Punch Pictures & Media


 
meauho 
Con Addict
Posts: 117
meauho
Loc: Houston(ish), Tx
Reg: 04-24-08

12-11-08 01:58 PM - Post#3251    
    In response to Fedora

I'm going to say yes and no to the idea of sharing such lists.

I'll start with No first:
You are absolutely right that the reason one person was banned from one con may not even apply at another con. Worse, it may be because the banned individual and a staff member simply don't get along (yes, I've seen this happen).

However, there are several situations and reasons where I would let it stand.

1. Multiple conventions by the same group. For example; if Anime Boston banned somebody, I would have no problem finding out they were also banned from Providence Anime Conference - although to an attendee, they may seem to be two separate events.

2. If the list contains clear, concise reasons with individual (not general) examples of what was done to warrant what I consider a very harsh punishment.

3. You were at the con they were banned from, and have first hand knowledge (not just rumor mill information) of why they were banned.

4. The final situation is actually one that you see at a lot of cons - it is based on the staff member who bans the person. A lot of people work multiple conventions. Do that enough, and your word may be known, and trusted enough to simply take it on faith when a staff member states that an attendee was banned with cause from another con, and you probably don't want them at your con.


I was informed recently that a particular guest has a stalker. The person who informed me of this situation did so after an incident between the guest and their stalker at a convention that I had absolutely no part in - as staff, volunteer, attendee, vendor, or exhibitor. I have already entered his name into our system as a person to keep an eye out for.

I won't ban him for one (relatively minor) incident unless the guest requests it... but I will know if he gets into any more incidents at any con within Texas, and can take measures after that. Once he actually starts getting banned by trusted people, it will likely snowball throughout the state.
Joshua Andrade

Bad Wolf Trading




 
PatrickD 
Executive Producer
Posts: 5078
PatrickD
Loc: California
Reg: 12-07-06

12-11-08 05:54 PM - Post#3252    
    In response to meauho

I've shared a few names with other conventions just as a heads up to watch for a few people, but I've never shared a whole list. If I got a list from someone else, I'd appreciate being aware of potential issues, but wouldn't ban anyone without absolute proof of an offense. I also wouldn't share an entire list just because most people aren't bad enough to warrant attempting to get them banned from every convention out there. From what I've seen, banned folks usually don't do the convention circuit anyway.

You've also got to make sure you're not just banning someone with the same name. It's not the "No Fly List" here...
-PatrickD
AnimeCons.com Executive Producer
Co-Founder: Anime Boston and Providence Anime Conference
Host of The Chibi Project & Anime Unscripted™


 
Drorain 
Con Addict
Posts: 131
Drorain
Loc: Massachusetts
Reg: 01-18-07

12-15-08 06:38 PM - Post#3276    
    In response to PatrickD

This is where people need to becareful, information sharin, without it being expressly stated in clear verbage is a faux pas amongst organizations...might even be illegal. There are reasons you check the box 'not to share information' on applications. It can become a problem for mailing lists, phone numbers, emails all sorts of crap.

of course i might have pulled that out of my arse too, can't find a citation via google.

I think he has a legit gripe with the con and can demand follow-up
I'ma Designer! PowderKeg Graphic Design
I'ma Blogger too! Holy Carp!


 
Fedora 
Con Regular
Posts: 93
Fedora
Loc: Suffolk UK & NH USA
Reg: 12-22-06

12-16-08 11:59 AM - Post#3280    
    In response to Drorain

  • Drorain Said:
This is where people need to becareful, information sharin, without it being expressly stated in clear verbage is a faux pas amongst organizations...might even be illegal. There are reasons you check the box 'not to share information' on applications. It can become a problem for mailing lists, phone numbers, emails all sorts of crap.

of course i might have pulled that out of my arse too, can't find a citation via google.

I think he has a legit gripe with the con and can demand follow-up



I have been reading the privacy laws for our fair land. Any sort of information in this case seems to fall in the fine gray area of the law. Yes names and address are covered however; who gets to use them gets a bit confusing.


However, I personally feel no convention should ever give out that sort of information under any circumstances. Unless they have a documented police and or medical report to go along with it.

I have been investigating two cases on behalf of my friend and a business contact with a similar issue. I have learned allot about how certain conventions work and how they view the law. As with things in life, some events are better than others are. However, one must take any list magically handed to them from another event with a grain of salt.

The more I investigated I found that this case is based on circumstantial evidence taken from a third party not affiliated with the event. The problem stems from a case of one persons word against another’s. Since this was the case, the event in question would not grant any sort of due process to resolve the matter. In my opinion this is not right and very much not in the spirit of our legal system.

I am still pursuing this issue at this time. I have been very careful to keep out names and places here. However, this subject should serve as a classic example of what not to do form an Anime Conventions point of view.
James Fedora
Cosplay Media and US/UK Medic

Staff Anime Boston 03,06,07,08,09
Chief of Security Connecticon 03
Co founder of Anime South
Offcial Videographer London Cosplay Ball 08
Jack of All Trades & Medic Kitacon UK 09

www.otakupunch.com
Facebook- Otaku Punch Pictures & Media


 
kenwa 
Newbie
Posts: 4

Reg: 02-15-08

12-23-08 03:19 PM - Post#3295    
    In response to Fedora

That sounds a lot like the situation that I was mired in at about the time that you made your original post (except for being completely different in almost every particular). Although the timing of your original post was awfully close, nothing you've described matches anything that actually happened in the aftermath of December 6 so I don't know if we are talking about the same guy or not. If we are... well, you've been misled about a lot.

In my situation I distributed information about a set of circumstances that led to an individual being effectively banned from every convention in Texas (certainly every major one), but no "banned attendee" list was shared (I have access to no such list for any convention anyway), and nothing I reported or shared with anyone was provided by or obtained from any convention. I merely described a sequence of events as I experienced them.

When I did so there was already widely available (and completely inaccurate) information being disseminated about the situation (which on its face made it seem very silly). I just provided correct information, but I did not publicly use this person's real name. I did mention his badge/stage name (which, again, was already being widely reported). All of this is pretty much public knowledge, with my real name and email address readily available in association with what I said.

Now my guy was ejected from a single convention for escalating series of disruptive incidents at that convention, but is banned from multiple events in Texas for concerns arising from a history of harassing behavior involving multiple industry persons both at and away from conventions. They are separate circumstances that came to a head at the same time. And at that time he was told that he wouldn't be welcome at any other conventions in the state. If he was under the impression that making that happen would require that weekend's convention sharing privileged information then he was mistaken. There was representation from about half the Texas cons present that day and his identity was perfectly well-known, since he'd been passing out a business card to a lot of people he shouldn't have been bothering. Most everyone involved had the authority to ban him from one or more conventions that they were associated with. We unanimously agreed that this was the right choice to make, because no one wants their convention to be the one where a more serious assault on a guest than the one that happened that weekend occurs.

Afterward I did get private emails from people associated with other conventions asking me to provide identifying information on the person in question. Nothing I provided them came from any convention's registration information, and what they elected to do with it (whether ban or merely watch out for him) was up to them. I do know that if they decided to ban this person from their convention then it was a decision they had already made before they contacted me for details (and in more than one case I told the person contacting me that I thought their convention had sufficient guest safety measures to not ban him). But if they did ban him then I fully support them, because their industry guests are safer for that decision. That said, if some convention is banning some other random person who happens to have the same name (quite possible) then they are screwing up. If they used the email address from his business card (i.e. the one he uses to approach industry people that says he is a convention consultant for a convention that denies any association with him) then they've got the right guy. If they haven't returned his money, then again, screwing up. But I can't imagine any convention not having the authority to deny access to the convention for the individual that I'm referring to under the circumstances that occured.

If we really are talking about the same guy and legal action is being considered, then I expect that I should be the primary target. No "convention" did anything at all, and I'm perfectly OK with my own actions. Indeed, I took it upon myself to be a conduit for the information precisely because I have no authority to represent any of my conventions to the public or other conventions, nor access to their registration or security information (I only work with guests). Everything I said was true, and there are plenty of witnesses to anything I've ever mentioned publicly if anything ever came of it (and there was a lot that I never mentioned at all).

 
Fedora 
Con Regular
Posts: 93
Fedora
Loc: Suffolk UK & NH USA
Reg: 12-22-06

12-23-08 03:29 PM - Post#3296    
    In response to kenwa

Wow what a long post.

It was interesting to read and understand why some conventions do what they do. Many times what conventions do are justified and some are not. It honestly depends on the event and who is running it. The case listed in my first post is an interesting one to say the least. Alcohol was a key factor with both of the cases so far.

In regards to your post, the two cases I have been investigating, are not in related to any event in the state of Texas.
James Fedora
Cosplay Media and US/UK Medic

Staff Anime Boston 03,06,07,08,09
Chief of Security Connecticon 03
Co founder of Anime South
Offcial Videographer London Cosplay Ball 08
Jack of All Trades & Medic Kitacon UK 09

www.otakupunch.com
Facebook- Otaku Punch Pictures & Media


 
kenwa 
Newbie
Posts: 4

Reg: 02-15-08

12-23-08 03:47 PM - Post#3297    
    In response to Fedora

That's a relief... no one would use "integrity" to describe my guy, and I doubt he could get security clearance for a gas station restroom key.

 
Proz 
Con Addict
Posts: 141
Proz
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-08-07

12-24-08 10:31 PM - Post#3315    
    In response to Fedora

This might possibly be a East/Midwest thing but I can tell you as a chairman that no one has passed along a "ban" list except for the described person kenwa talked about. While I know it isn't uncommon at major Texas conventions people are booted/evicted/badge pulled at the convention but I have not been given a "ban" list by them.
San Japan - San Antonio, Texas - Convention Chairman


 
A x e l - F 
Con Addict
Posts: 233
A x e l - F
Loc: So. Utah
Reg: 07-08-09

07-08-09 05:48 PM - Post#4851    
    In response to Fedora

I'm sorry but that is rather low and if I was that person, I would be taking a look at that conventions privacy policy.

I agree with some of the reasons listed that there are acceptations to giving people a heads up on a possible troublesome guest or if more then one con was run by the same group but not just share a list like that. A person could have simply had a bad day or someone has a grudge against someone else.
A x e l - F
Public Relations
Anime SG // Anime Bonanza




 
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